I’m restless. There’s something brewing on the blogosphere and I can’t tap it. It’s a new energy driven by bloggers who are asking questions about the status quo; they’re pushing the envelope on common thought and traditional practice, and they’re encouraging people to improve, excel, respect, and change.
I can’t begin to capture it all here, but I need to cut loose with this observation and ask, “Is anyone following this train of thought in the least?”
We can count on Gini Dietrich at Spin Sucks, to consistently be leading edge and contribute to the tipping point on all things PR and marketing. Her blog has been a hot bed of debate about whether PR’s rubber is meeting the road, or whether marketing influence is driving the mother ship regardless of the influence of PR.
At Shakirah Dawud’s house, the comments are rich and she’s expecting me to write a blog post about my rant relating to PR and measurement. Numbers have always been PR’s nemesis; it’s how we used to be trained back in the day. Today, being more marketing savvy would do many a PR person good; add business sense to that equation, and voila, a star is born.
Shonali Burke has had a two-day running post (thank goodness the comments were not as high in count as Marcus The Sales Lion who fried my hard drive almost) about a bad PR pitch that disrespected her influence and social media reach.
And, Shonali has been implementing a #BlueKey campaign for global refugees igniting social media for her cause to earn 6,000 Blue Keys by June 20. The campaign is brilliant, the metrics are already impressive and amazing, and she’s got every channel burning up. (Major kudos to this woman for her absolutely should-be award-winning campaign still in its throes.)
I got a call today from a salesperson at a major corporation. She is familiar with my brand based on the work I do, although she was unsure what exactly I do. In the back of my mind, I’ve known that sales is the final frontier for PR, yet “marketing is in the way.” Heh. I’m not truly serious, it’s just that in my opinion, sales people are a brand and they represent a brand. They need to become representative of a brand and use public relations to build it, build community, build trust, and build reputation. PR is how that’s done, more often than not.
We spoke, and I spelled out a strategy that was heavy on LinkedIn and community building along with how we might incorporate nine touches with her new clients who don’t know she exists. Is that PR or marketing?
The lines have blurred so confusingly that I ought to write a message map about my offering. There’s lots I do; there’s more I don’t and that’s where you come in. Together we make a team; each of us is helping one another achieve some sort of goal — whether it’s building confidence, learning the ropes of social media, trying to find someone to visit on your next holiday, earning an invitation to Triberr, hiring someone to round out a team (I’ve hired three people off Twitter and sent business to another).
I wrote a post awhile back, We’re All Talking to Ourselves. It got many head nods and an ouch on the hand by major blogger. I’m raising this again because we who are in debate, casual conversation or heated discussion about the aforementioned have little luck raising the bar or changing the status quo until we get business on board to chime in. We’re spinning wheels, talking in circles, passing the head nod to the next one in line, and where’s the change? Those business owners who show dissent against PR rant and rave once and then disappear; no way can they enter the lion’s den and survive (heck, no one has skin that thick!).
Can you see why I’m restless, antsy, on edge, and trying to maintain balance as we all worry if we’re a Syrian Lesbian Blogger or Weiner? (Wanted to send a bit of link love to the best headline of the week.)
What say you? I’m all over the place; there’s a lot being fired up.
Wow, you covered a lot of ground here, Jayme! Where to start….
I could write a whole other blog post in response, but I’ll just say I feel ya. I think there is some restlessness brewing. I think there are those preachers out there (like the ones you mentioned), but there’s still a lot of education needed about what IT is we all do. You’re right – the lines of PR/Marketing are often blurred. But, at the end of the day, does that really matter? What matters most is moving the needle for our clients. I don’t know if they care about the semantics of it. They care about results.
I need to go read your post about talking to ourselves. I think you’re right – there’s a lot of that going on. We would probably do well to spend more time talking to our clients and businesses because our network already “gets” it. There’s still plenty of work that needs to be done to educate the public at large. Make sense?
Very much appreciate you stopping in early with an affirmation for me! And, reading a few others today, it seems my wonky thought process is being shared (more acutely) elsewhere. Something’s afoot and amiss; I’ve not tapped it, but I’m going to keep trying to explain and zero in on what’s being said in parallel.
As for clients; this is TMI. We need to consider all the tactics and present them as a comprehensive campaign. Social media has had its hey day; has it run its course? (blog post)
You’re hiring? Need my resume’?
Salespeople; I resemble that remark. You made a good point though, Together we make a team; each of us is helping one another achieve some sort of goal. It’s all about community building.
To get more sales, stop selling.
When you talk about your own company,
you’re selling – even if you do it nicely. You really cross the line if you use
verbiage like one-stop shopping, industry leader, user-friendly, scalable,
best-in-class, robust, or innovative.
In fact, if you say even one nice word
about your company, you’re seen as a typical salesperson – despite all your best
efforts to not be. So stop talking about yourself.
How about this for a fresh
perspective: Focus on your customer instead. That’s the antidote to
“selling.” In your next call on a prospect, think about how you can
quickly:
Demonstrate your knowledge of what’s happening in their
firm or industry.
Align your message with their issues, goals, objectives
and concerns.
Bring them ideas, insights and information about highly
relevant topics.
Sound like a colleague who’s been thinking about their
business challenges. Ok, I wasn’t clever enough to come up with that on my own but it’s my philosophy. I better be aligned with my prospect and bring something of value or I look and act just like everyone else.It is all a blend and one shoe doesn’t fit all. You can be a specialist, but you better have a broad network of resources and be able to connect the proper resources together.That is all……………
Well said, Bill. What say you about the comingling of PR and sales? It’s not happened thus far; I think it should and needs to. Thoughts?
The best sales people do more listening than talking. Ask more questions than they have to answer.
The highlight of my last sales job was stopping in the HR department of my sister company before Christmas plant shut down to say hello, give them some cookies, and thank them for all the support they gave me since I traveled so much. And they said ‘Howie we have to apologize to you. Just before you walked in we were just slamming all Salespeople for being slimy because of this one rep who keeps calling on us and just stopped by and never shuts up his sales talking, and it is not true because you aren’t like that’
Agreed Bill. I’m with @howieatskypulsemedia:disqus and think the best sales people know when to shut up and listen; let the customers do the talking.. and with a few helpful messages from you, they’ll talk themselves into a sale.
Coming from B2B Industrial Sales Jayme often Sales is the main revenue source at the places I worked at, my competitors, our vendors, and our customers. PR is relegated to updates on the Company Website focused towards Investor Relations and Marketing makes catalogs, a few ads for trade journals and coordinates the trade shows which ironically while they create the booth, the marketing collateral, and whatever else should be there aside from maybe a token Marketing person the booth is manned by salespeople.
The three groups often operate in silos. I have been asked to provide copy for annual reports. But never input on Press Releases. PR never came to me and said ‘do you mind if I help you communicate or present better when you do these specific activities’ and marketing never came to me and said ‘how can I help you? what are you missing? Give me intelligence from the field’. And I never went to these two critical partners in sales and outward communication asking them if I could help them. What do they need from me.
And it shouldn’t be that way. I really liked your 9 touches strategy. I spent 5 years developing from scratch the western US for a small division of a big conglomerate where I sold things that did not exist yet. It was as brutal as starting my own Advertising/Marketing business from scratch in a brand new industry. Anything that could of reduced how much cold calls, teleprospecting, flying to cities and camping out in lobbies hoping to beg for an audience would of been incredible for me. Of course the social technology tools in 2002-2007 did not exist as they do today.
I just got off Skype with Bill Dorman (in case you didn’t know). What you just said; exactly. I’m proposing a collaboration with sales and PR to train sales people on the new normal (maybe not so normal after Danny’s post?) with creating community. PR needs to have direct contact to sales; it’s imperative. Sales people cannot talk about themselves; they must immerse in the customer and deliver a resource. Selling is second.
When I did have the ear of sales, I loved it. I was able to interact directly with that expertise directly from the field; no one in marketing has that field experience unless they’re going on sales calls to listen. My thought is that all sales people (see above) need to create a solid brand, and the ROI should happen. Maybe I’m on crack or acting like that’s a perfect world, but am I wrong to assume the some social networking channels driven by a solid PR strategy would help sales people function and sell more, better?
I’m hot about this; not sure exactly why…
I think PR is going to have to get into the metrics/ROI/numbers game. It’s a down economy (or so I hear), and being able to prove your worth is critical.
I used to work with a consultant who consistently rejected “gut feel” playing a role in anything we put before executives. She claimed that executives don’t give a darn about gut feel, they are only influenced by “objective” proof. Cue me trying to do pivot tables with open-ended survey answers – YIKES.
This was in my head as I read your post this morning. THEN I went to a CQI meeting and we were asked to evaluate some solutions. Someone asked, “You’re asking us to use our SUBJECTIVE opinion?” and he said, “It’s not your subjective opinion, it’s your EXPERT JUDGMENT.”
I liked that. I’m still thinking about the devaluation (?) of expert judgment.
I don’t think PR isn’t in the metrics/ROI/numbers game. If you follow @RebeccaDenison she’s all over this topic. As for “expert judgment,” what’s the diff? I’m swimming over here; and what’s the solution I might add?
Oh, I must have misunderstood “Numbers have always been PR’s nemesis; it’s how we used to be trained back in the day.” and your comments on Shakirah’s blog. I thought you were saying PR people don’t worry about the bottom line. Was I wrong? Please help!!!
Back in the day in my Chicago agency days, we were a bunch of kids directed by a bunch of kids. My charge was to sell news, pitch stories and get ink; that was all. The bottom line was never discussed; hell, I never even knew what that was (theoretically) or how I as PR should influence that. Paul Rand was my mentor and leader of Corporate Technology Communications before we were acquired by Ketchum. He brought a business sense to PR that no one else was doing; yet, he stopped short. We should’ve had workshops and trainings around financials, P&L, bottom lines, costs, accruals, and measurement. Although our clients were blue chip — Motorola, Xerox, IBM, etc., they weren’t demanding it (or I wasn’t aware).
When I say numbers in general are not something PR people gravitate toward, it’s more from ignorance and discomfort. All of us, whether a business owner or cog on a team in a corporation, must be aware how we influence the bottom line. That comes from communication with our sisters who see the analytics and P&L. We need to ask to be invited.
Think you lived one of my dream moments Jenn. I’ve been on the opposite side of that table, those folks ignoring my ‘expert’ judgment and then wonder why something didn’t work. Facepalms aplenty.
First of all, thank you for including my post and kind mention of the Blue Key campaign – I can’t tell you how much it meant to me that you stepped up to help out with that!
Bill said, “To get more sales, stop selling.” I love that (actually, I love pretty much all he said, but I’ll focus on that). I’m not a traditional sales person at all – say the word “sales” to me and I freeze up – but I think I’m actually very good at it, as are you, Gini, etc. – because we focus on the conversation & community aspect. When we offer value through conversation and community, people see that we can do the same for their brands, organizations, campaigns.
I love the way you approached your conversation with the salesperson… you’ll let us know how it works out?
Are we changing anything? I think so, but it’s slow, and it’s frustrating. I can’t tell you how many people come to me for “PR” and what they really mean is publicity. And while that is potentially part of what I do (in the olde worlde media relations sense), that is just a very small part of what I do. For me it has to start at the beginning, examining what the business/organization needs to achieve, and how Communication can help that. It’s got to be integrated, it’s got to be measurable and community has has HAS to be a part of it.
So well said, spot on and all that eloquent jazz, Shonali. You’re welcome and thank you in kind. It feels like things are blowing up; it’s so critical to stay the course, yet what exactly is that course? We plug away making a difference the way we know is right, and we try to rectify the problems as we grow and go.
My community, still growing, has changed my life in a significant way. Each of us on this journey can agree with that. Phase two is to determine how to put our collective learnings into action that come from the heart and not the wallet.
I think we HAVE to get in the numbers game. Sure, engagement and awareness and all that feel good stuff is important, and I think in the next 10 years we’ll see accounting practices change to include brand value in real numbers. But, until then, we have to step up our game and prove we’re an investment and not an expense. You don’t really know how powerful PR is until it’s gone. And then it’s too late. We have a Fortune 10 client who, for the past three years, has kept us on retainer to do very little communication, but to keep some things alive. They’re well aware that if they shut it off entirely, it will take years to rebuild it. The other thing our industry desperately needs is accountability around ethics. That’s part of my vision for Spin Sucks Pro: Education, professional development, and then regulation.
There is an elite group of PR peeps you’ve highlighted, and each is on a variety of pathways whether solos, virtual, freelance, or small-biz owner (like you). If you can use your expertise when Spin Sucks Pro evolves to push for consistency and some semblance of regulation, I’m all in. I will help you with whatever you need; I want businesses to respect what we do and know that ethics are top notch. We will not change the kidlets who do bad pitch PR; but we can uphold ourselves higher in the name of ROI. (I have no idea why I’m so jazzed up about all this stuff today; it is what it is and I’m riding it.) XO
I really liked what you said about treating PR as an investment, not expense. Word. And yet there’s the stock counter of: what’s the ROI on the phone? The copy machine? The accountants, keeping the books straight.. how are they adding the brand’s value, the company’s bottom line? I DO think numbers and RESULTS are what’s called for and it’s the ones who can connect those dots to show tangible benefits that will step to the fore. As will those who practice with ethics, integrity and professionalism, so big hat tip to you for leading the charge.
You’re not going to like what I’m about to say, but I think PR pros who say that stuff really don’t understand how a business is run (not saying you, just in general). Our entire industry is wrought with media impressions and advertising equivalencies and now numbers of followers and fans and pageviews to demonstrate our worth. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE DO.
Why not have a call-to-action on the blog that drives people to BUY something? Why not track specific campaigns with unique URLs or QR codes? Heck, even media relations can be measured by traffic spikes and leads around a specific story. Or how many reporters use the online media room and then use the information for stories. Or how many stories you get from blog content.
There are so many things we can to show that we’re an investment, not an expense, but we’re so stuck in how things have always been done, and we’re not math people, so we don’t try very hard.
Sure, things like taking out the trash, building brand awareness, or keeping the books don’t translate to results, but they have to be done in order to keep a business alive. That’s the cost of doing business (an expense).
I like that just fine Gini and would like to see the end of AVEs and more than awareness surveys being the ‘result’ sheet at the end of the day. Unique URLs, trackable calls to action.. that’s what I mean by connect the dots, results, tangible benefits. As for being not math people, think that’s a bias we have to fight by as @twitter-54546555:disqus getting serious about the measurement game; I know folks like you and @Shonali:disqus rock the analytics and believe me, I’m trying hard both to learn.. and educate the clients, as part of showing them the value. FWIW.
I had dinner last night with someone who used to work at TopRank. He said it was always shocking to him that PR pros had all this access to data, when working with TopRank, but they always chose to send just the “fluff” to their clients.
The independent PR group here in Atlanta picked Google Analytics as a seminar for one of our luncheons; popular topic and pretty full room. Gotta get past the fluff and thud books; show, do more.
There’s never been greater opportunity to do what you suggest, Gini, than now. PR peeps must re-invent with the changes and capitalize on the opportunities in social and content marketing. PR=marketing. Proof points required.
I’m all for proving we’re an investment and not an expense. WE have to understand the P&L, the balance sheet, how much it costs the client to do biz and what sort of profit margin they hope to have. Does our work match that? Or, are we out of sync, operating in a PR vacuum of feel good relationships and media placements?
Our work absolutely matches that and we’re not out of sync. So much of what we do can be measured, but we’ve always been taught that we’re the intangible discipline. That’s baloney.
Wow, this was good.. and loved the linkapalooza as I think I’ve read almost all the posts. I’ve been trying to read more of the ‘academic’ leanings on PR today, often find myself woefully lost both in practice and just the vernacular; instead of business barf it’s post-graduate multi-syllabic noise. So then I go back to the current practice and integrated marketing approaches, still look for a little more .. something. I do look to different sources for debate, to up my game .. try to find that cross-section of thinkers and practitioners, doers and teachers, etc. that can push me to improve. It’s a work always in progress, as it should be.
Kudos to you for seeking more on the practice and the execution, Davina. I’d have no clue, I’ll admit, where to turn for something from the text books that will influence the day to day. And, how the heck to text books keep up with the day to day? Heck, we can’t! Change, change, change.
Blurry lines, yes! I’m reading and learning here, and quite glad I asked the question I did. Thanks for the link back.
And like Jenn I thought you were saying PR isn’t into numbers as much as marketing and sales are, but you seem to be saying it a little differently now. Are you meaning that PR the “right way” should be more focused on numbers?
I hope I explained it just above in Jenn’s comment. Absolutely. Years ago, no one cared about numbers; our worth was given to being luxurious. We didn’t define our influence on the bottom line. That’s all changed or is changing or must change.
I see now what you’re saying (sorry I’m late getting back here), and it triggered a few more questions for me. Do you think that will blur the lines further on the borders of “related” things like marketing and sales? If so, do you think that’s good or bad for those industries? If not, which kinds of metrics does PR use (are they different, or just scaled differently than marketing and sales metrics)?
Thanks for the headline link love…and as you know, I love this post. (Jayme and I had a real life phone conversation today – those are pretty cool, too).
I agree. We have to start exploring and learning new territory and working with sales (and marketing) are part of that. I think we all (sales, marketing and PR) have a responsibility to our clients to do all that we can to improve their ROI and their bottom line. As I shared with you today, my newest client would like a specific dollar amount as his ROI for my services and I’m all good with that. You know why? Because I asked at the very beginning of our process together, what do you hope to gain from this? From my efforts? His answer was based on past experience with PR and a 6 month retained services agreement that left him with $750 in traceable biz to that PR guy. That. Stinks. I know full well how much it costs to do anything as a small biz owner. PR is an investment. The client should expect some return on that investment. I base my successes not on media placements or community engagement or successful brand management, but on how much new biz my efforts bring in for my clients. To get really clever, I ask them how much that dollar amount equates to in their services or products line up. In other words, does the desired ROI amount equal to 2 website designs, a 20% increase in restaurant diners per/week (or $750 in new revenue/week), or, a paid speaking engagement at x amount of dollars. Once I know what their services or products cost, balanced with how much I cost to them as an investment, then I can set about doing work that matches that equation. That’s why I ended my arrangement with a client recently – she can’t sell enough of her widgets to match what she needs to pay me in order to see results.And as a small biz owner, we’re all in the business of sales. Sorry. We are. I dislike it as much as the next guy, but it is, what it is and I’m working each day to get better at it. I could go on, but that would be rude. I’ll just saunter down to the comments and commence with the hijacking. xoxo
There’s one thing that will never go away in our profession, and it’s all about the practitioner who touched our client last and created that impression.
I’m so love this blog, already bookmarked it! Thanks.